P.S.: Hier die Originalmails (email-Adressen uns sonstiges, was nicht im www zufinden ist, gelöscht...) - umgekehrte Chronologie - also von unten nach oben lesen.....:
Hi Alan and Wilbert,
here are some very new pictures from Ortwin,who grew the plants from the Thai seeds... see last post #37
paeonifolius-Samen bei i-bäh
He writes that many petioles vary from year to year and the reddish colour vanishes more and more and turn into brown; only the petiole of the the plant in the 3rd pic is the same every year.
Do you think the variation fits to paeoniifolius?
I guess this will be the last mail/question from my side - I hope that this was not too tiring for you.....
Thanks, Bernhard.
Am 30.08.2015 um 10:34 schrieb Bernhard ...:
> Hi Alan and Wilbert,
>
> I remembered that this request was already sent to the aroid-L in 2011 (incl. pics):
>
https://www.hort.net/lists/aroid-l/jun11/msg00022.html
>
> Wilbert's suggestion at that time was k due to petiole colour, but there were also comments on the variation in petiole colour in p.
>
> Cheers, Bernhard.
>
> Am 30.08.2015 um 10:06 schrieb Bernhard ...:
>> Hi Alan,
>>
>> OK, I could keep the Thai spec. in slightly moist substrate; without and dry lead to dehydration.
>> I have not had a lot of paeoniifolius, but have killed some big suran from Indian food stores in damp substrate; therefore I got the impression "paeoniifollius bone dry and soilless until the bud grows and roots are visible. Let alone I finally killed my orange-sized seedgrown paeoniifolius (different seeds source) probably due to too low temps after potting.
>>
>> To summarize your observations - no way to distingush p and k prior flowering.....
>>
>> Thanks Alan for your time and information.
>>
>> Wilbert, any differing observations on storing conditions from your side?
>>
>> Breg, Bernhard.
>>
>> Am 30.08.2015 um 01:31 schrieb Alan Galloway:
>>>
>>> Bernard,
>>> I have difficulty storing both k & p either dry or in soil...I think the key is to keep them potted doring dormancy slightly moist, but also rather warm.
>>> Alan
>>> On Aug 30, 2015 12:10 AM, "Bernhard ..." <....> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Wilbert and Alan,
>>>
>>> thanks for your time and replying so quick !
>>>
>>> Wilbert, when reading your lines I agree that the picture of the seller from Thailand
>>>
>>>
http://www.ebay.de/itm/45-x-FRESH-VOODOO…=p2047675.l2557
>>>
>>> and the one from the German seller, who bought the seeds from the seller from Thailand
>>>
>>>
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Amorphophallus-ko…%3D262001324712
>>>
>>>
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Amorphophallus-ko…%3D262001324712
>>>
>>> fit to paeoniifolius.
>>> In the Thailand pics a wild type paeoniifolius with a rough petiole,
>>> in the case of the German seller rather smooth petioles
>>> (BTW, he was informed after his first offer by two Amorph-lovers that his plant is T. venosum; thereafter I contacted him and informed him that it is definitely an Amorph and after reading the discussion in our forum he changed the name to koratensis...)
>>>
>>> Wilbert, I do also agree with the observation that I never saw the purplelish-red petiole in paeoniifolius but many of the seedlings of the Thai seller show this colour.
>>>
>>> compare:
paeonifolius-Samen bei i-bäh
>>>
>>> post # 10 ( mostly reddish petioles but also one green) and the link in that post
>>>
>>>
http://abrimaal.pro-e.pl/araceum/unid/amo2.htm
>>>
>>> but seedlings from the Thai source may also be green or nearly black; see post # 33 on page 2 of the discussion above.
>>>
>>> I do not know the shape of the offsets.but the German seller wrote that his spec. pops up all over in his greenhouse / pots since he recyles old substrate for his bananas and Amorphs, too.
>>>
>>> I would also agree with the slenderness of the petioles of the Thai source I and forum members grow; but this does not necessaryly fit to the German offfers at ebay.
>>>
>>>
>>> After your comment, Alan, that you saw the differential traits Wilbert describes (for k or p) in both spec. the differentiation might not be possible prior flowering.
>>>
>>>
>>> There remains one point: storage requirements during dormancy.
>>> I noticed that the tubers from the Thai source dehydrate when stored dry with out substrate - this is confirmed by all forum members. The tubers survive only when stored in slightly moist substrate.
>>> On the other hand I had never success when storing paeoniifolius in substrate; it easily rots.
>>>
>>> Have you made such an observation, too? And would you thing that this is a reliable trait to distinguish paeoniifolius from koratensis?
>>>
>>> I'd be grateful for a short comment on that point.....
>>>
>>> Best regards, Bernhard.
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 29.08.2015 um 16:23 schrieb Alan Galloway:
>>>>
>>>> Bernard,
>>>> For the most part I agree with Wilbert, but the characteristis he distinguishes paeoniifolius from koratensis (petiole color, roughness and stolon shape, length) I have seen in both species. Therefore I would only distinguish these species by flower alone.
>>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>> On Aug 29, 2015 7:20 PM, "Wilbert Hetterscheid" <...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Bernhard,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As far as I can judge from the relevant pictures it is paeoniifolius. Recognizing this from koratensis in a non-flowering state is not always possible and hinges on the presence or absence of certain characters of the petiole, and of the tuber. In the pictures you’ll see a fairly smooth petiole, which to my mind never/rarely occurs in koratensis. Also many/most koratensis have a shade of purplish-red in the petiole, a color never present in paeoniifolius. Conversely the somewhat greyish green colors in the pictures is something I never saw in koratensis. The offsets of paeoniifolius lastly are always short and broad, those of koratensis often longer and thinner, much more rhizomorphic. Generally koratensis has more slender petioles whereas those of paeoniifolius can get really thick. This becomes a trifle problematic when Am. scaber is synonymized with koratensis (which I have a good mind of doing). Then we get really fat petioles into the nature of koratensis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alan has grown quite some koratensis so he may have additional observations.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Wilbert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Van: Bernhard [mailto:...]
>>>> Verzonden: zaterdag 29 augustus 2015 13:02
>>>> Aan: Wilbert Hetterscheid; Alan Galloway
>>>> Onderwerp: paeoniifolius - koratensis differentiation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Wilbert,
>>>> Dear Alan,
>>>>
>>>> could you please take a few minutes to read the message below and share your experience?
>>>>
>>>> The final question is, if paeoniifolius and koratensis can be differentiated prior flowering and/or by the storage requirements during dormancy ( bone dry vs slightly moist substrate).
>>>>
>>>> The discussion came up after a German guy offered an amophophallus as Typhonium venosum
>>>> (if you want to read the discussion:
was könnte das sein bei i-bäh sein?
>>>> translation button at the very end of that page) and it turned out that he bought the seeds via ebay as paeoniifolius from the same source as some forum members who think that the spec is rather koratensis.
>>>>
>>>> In the forum thread obove and the following
>>>>
>>>>
paeonifolius-Samen bei i-bäh
>>>>
Amorphophallus koratensis vs. paeoniifolius
>>>>
>>>> you will find pictures of the paeoniifolius/koratensis seedlings and some observations about the plants.
>>>>
>>>> I'd be grateful to get to know your opinion.
>>>>
>>>> Rgds, Bernhard. (aka mr.titanum at ebay)
>>>> ....
>>>>