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1

Donnerstag, 3. Oktober 2019, 19:13

Knollenwachstum durch längere Belichtungsdauer verbessern?

Hello everyone

in the Karnivorenforum there was once a contribution on how to pull Sarracenia (hose plants) by up to 21 hours of lighting and plenty of fertilizer within a year from germination as large as with normal growth in 3 years.

Of course, the fertilizer played a role in this, but the lighting time of 21 hours a day was already extreme. The plants were completely pulled under artificial light, and were initially rather "soft", and had to be gradually accustomed to greenhouse culture.

Since my tropical species have now moved back to their winter quarters, where they are exclusively under artificial light, the topic became interesting for me again.

Hence my question: has anyone ever had any experience with this? Or read something about it?

Greetings, Ralf

2

Donnerstag, 3. Oktober 2019, 20:41

Hello Ralf

Were there any observations as to whether they were more susceptible to disease?

Lg

3

Freitag, 4. Oktober 2019, 09:37

Hello Sonja,

Let's put it this way: at least nothing has become known about any disadvantages, which does not automatically exclude them.

The fact is, sarracenia are extremely sought-after collector's items, and eye-catching and special plants/crosses/clones achieve prices in the 4-digit range. There is, of course, a great temptation to help happiness a little.

In Italy, enormous sarracenia have appeared, but they have been dressed in darkness or with far-off spot lighting. And this with plants that are extremely sun-hungry. However, those who are a little better at sarracenia have quickly noticed that there is something wrong and recognized the characteristics of a plant that has not grown quite healthy (keyword is horny). And in fact, there were more and more reports of where these plants were weak, and usually only of short lifespan.

I haven't heard or read anything about the very quick ones, but that doesn't mean there are no downsides. For my part, I would be wary of that.
Maybe I'll just try if I have enough tubers left:-))

Greetings, Ralf

4

Freitag, 4. Oktober 2019, 10:08

It is clear that more light means more photosynthesis power and thus more growth, but when maximum possible power is achieved, then more light does nothing, rather harms, even to the point of sunburn. e.g. paphiopediles with too much light grow more slowly. Amorphophallus limits growth even by its own end of the growth phase... Whether more light brings higher growth or the plant simply moves in faster I do not know, but is certainly different from species to species. Thus, despite a short growth period, consimilis brings enormous growth to me. What is certain is that too little light harms, the tuber shrinks to non-existence, but anyway logical.
21 h light I consider problematic, since the plant hardly has time to process the produced energy; it may work in some species, but I think it's rare.
Greetings
Michael

5

Freitag, 4. Oktober 2019, 10:51

Hello in the round,

the implementation of the energy obtained by photosynthesis and ultimately the sythesis of glucose takes place, if I remember quite, continuously, that is, also during exposure and not only in the dark, as Michael suggests.
Just make sure:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthese
Michael, you may have in mind that there is a dark reaction in the photosythesis that can actually take place in the dark, but it is also ultimately also light-dependent; See:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynth... id-assimilation

In this respect, I would expect that a 21-hour exposure would lead to better tuber growth; I would also expect that the quality is OK, provided the boundary conditions are right, i.e. sufficient nutrient and water supply and an illuminance close to the saturation point for the photoythesis in our favorite plants....

Happy growing, Bernhard.

6

Freitag, 4. Oktober 2019, 18:40

Hello everyone

A very interesting topic. I would also expect that, under very good conditions, a longer lighting time will also bring a greater increase.
For those who are interested in the thread to which Ralf refers.
And the discussion about it.

Regards
Lukas

7

Samstag, 5. Oktober 2019, 10:36

Hello Bernhard,
thank you for your objection, I think I have overstepped the mark. Had read about it when I had added extra light. However, it was also about orchids, some of which belong to the CAM plants. Part of the photosynthesis is carried out at night in the vacuos, so that during the day the gap openings can remain closed in dryness, so as not to lose water. The dark reaction is, of course, one of them. That was just a bit of half-knowledge in the hurry, in a week I can read more. However, I do not know whether this mechanism plays a role for Amorphophallus at all, as they grow in humid climates.
Greetings
Michael

8

Samstag, 5. Oktober 2019, 13:06

Hello Michael,

well, that's how I often do..... The memories of the botanical lectures, especially the photosynthesis with their special forms, have faded so much for me that I have to read more closely...

At least the tropical Amophophallus spec. certainly do not belong to the CAM plants, which close the gap openings during the day and fix CO2 in the vacuoes at night, which is then processed during the day in the "dark reaction" of photosynthesis.
This may be different for the species from Africa, e.g. gallaensis or aphyllus, which cope very well with very high temperatures and drought. But in a list of CAM plants https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_... it_CAM plants do not appear.

I also find nothing about whether Amorphophallus spec all belong to the C3 plants (which make the "normal" photosynthesis) or some, such as the above, make the C4 metabolism; However, I think it is unlikely, since C4 plants are quite rare and above all grasses belong to them.

In this respect, I believe that the long exposure is only positive for (tuber) growth...

Happy growing, Bernhard.

9

Samstag, 5. Oktober 2019, 16:08

small update:

There is an Araceae that uses THE CAM metabolism (though not very efficiently)....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crassulace... sm-cite_note-50

here also a link to the article as pdf:
https://bsapubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/.../ajb.94.10.1670

Happy reading, Bernhard.

10

Mittwoch, 9. Oktober 2019, 20:01

Hello everyone!
I believe the exposure intensity and light colors as well as other circumstances such as fertilization, water, substrate, temperature.... have more effects than the sheer length of the exposure (or day length). We have already done a lot of experiments with LED and it is the hammer what different reactions show in different light spectra plants! However, we do not make any experiments with Amorphophallus... Although... maybe I can seize a plot next year:D
Greeting Tom

11

Freitag, 11. Oktober 2019, 10:14

Hello Tom,

It would certainly be very interesting to see something about your experiences with different LEDs, even if they are not Amorphos.
Maybe you can write a thread about it once the days get quieter.

Happy growing, Bernhard.

12

Montag, 14. Oktober 2019, 10:36

Hello Tom,
that would be superingenious if you could write something there. I always stand there when I try to see through. Soon I will be able to purchase new lighting again, and there is hardly any reasonable information; especially since LEDs are still quite expensive, no investment should also pay off...
Greetings
Michael

13

Montag, 14. Oktober 2019, 15:05

Hello everyone!
If I have time I will write something... but right at the front: I cannot and will not give a lamp recommendation. The genera react in some cases opposite to pure light colors. I don't think anyone at Amorphophallus has tested anything yet...
Greeting Tom

14

Montag, 14. Oktober 2019, 17:33

Hello Michael,

In the Karnivorforum, the topic of light is also discussed again and again. There hasn't been any really enlightening thing for me. Most rave about a homemade led spotlight sold by a user there. I bought several of them, but they are already very exclusive. 75 euro for a 22 watt spotlight. However, the result is satisfactory.
But the numerous alternative proposals also clearly show that it is worth trying.

For example, Ikea's Växer is supposed to deliver acceptable services. I myself am quite satisfied with DIY leds, and since I made higher-quality LEDs into the wet room frame, even very satisfied. In terms of price, of course, everything is much cheaper. And with the rapid development of LEDs, the bulbs may not have to last that long, because there will soon be much better.

For my tubers I currently use the Roleadro in red/blue. The purple light is probably only partially suitable for living space, but in the price/ratio great (my opinion). I'm going to buy more of it than hibernation lighting for my seasonal plants.

I can't say anything about the tuber wax, I've only had it under it for a few weeks. Last year, however, I was quite satisfied for the short time. A titanium seedling has formed a beautiful tuber in a relatively short time.
Greetings, Ralf

15

Dienstag, 15. Oktober 2019, 11:15

Thank you both!

I had suspected that with pure light colors some essential wavelengths may be missing, but that genera can react in opposite ways sounds exciting!

It's really hard to get the best light out, as the offer is huge, as are the prices. I mainly still have LSR to bypass the above problem, now I have good enough LED spotlights red/blue running, you can at least see first reactions, the leaves tilt away from the window to the lamp. Whether it also is good for tuber growth... sometimes we ayear...

Greetings
Michael

16

Mittwoch, 16. Oktober 2019, 12:14

Hello to the round,

Exposure, especially since LEDs have been available, is a very wide field if you include the spectra of the light sources in addition to the illuminance.

Unfortunately, I do not have any deep insights, but it is clear that plants certainly need more than just red and blue; in this context, there are more and more over-the-spot encounters such as full spectrum; Examples:
the 600 W lamp here https://www.ebay.de/itm/45W-200W-600W-Fu... kKHe7EcwQ-m_zgA , which also includes warm white, white and UV LEDs; the 45- and 200-W variants certainly do not deserve the designation full spectrum....
or from the professional field this one: https://www.dhlicht.de/led-ke-300-vsp/ which LEDs are used, unfortunately, is not listed.

Ralf, which DIY store LED spotlight do you use?
Can you please send the link to the discussion in the Karnivorforum?

Happy growing, Bernhard.

17

Mittwoch, 16. Oktober 2019, 21:40

Hello everyone :D

To add my mustard, I use the X-Reptile LED Power Strips for rearing. At first the price deterred me, but then I was able to get me to buy one at the reptile fair. And I think it's great.

Lg to all ;)

18

Mittwoch, 16. Oktober 2019, 21:42

Hello everyone!
The spectrum of the DH light lamp looks good. but 900 micromol/m2/sec at 40cm... that's then at 1m surely only 250 micromol... that are then exposed to approx. 1.5m2 area (with 300 watts!) ....

Which LED was installed is not so important, the spectrum has no UV, so there will be none in it. 440, 660, 735nm is definitely in it.
For me, LEDs are not energy savers in plant exposure. In order to offer enough photosynthesisable light (PAR) you have to cut a lot of watts on the m2!!! LUX meters do nothing, they measure the yellow/green range more. Only PAR knives and they cost a lot (good over 1000Euros) make sense.

More soon :-D I have to take care :-D of my flowers in the next few days

Greeting Tom

19

Samstag, 19. Oktober 2019, 20:51

Hello everyone

Bernhard, the theme of light comes up at least once a month. Since finding a direct link now is unfortunately quite pointless, especially since even the lighting experts do not agree.

I use besides the modified spotlights (it is an ordinary spotlight, as it is also available in every hardware store.) The hobbyists simply exchange the led chips for higher-quality Nichia-Leds, which supposedly have up to 180 lumens per watt (I mean at least to remember).

On tubes I use the standard wet room luminaires from the DIY market. As I said, so far in carnivores, and that is how it goes. Is already still air up, no question

The Amorphophallus are under red/blue spotlights... see how they develop. I want to put most of them out in the summer.

Trying out is essential. Today I dug up a few sauromatums, which got rather little sun. To my great astonishment, they have grown many times over... no idea how this happened. The leaves were much smaller than with the IGs, but the tubers grew super and really huge.

Greetings Ralf

20

Sonntag, 20. Oktober 2019, 11:13

Hello Ralf,

how far are your spotlights modified?
Can you please name the spotlight exactly? (brand where bought etc.)
Do I understand that hobbyists from the forum have replaced the LED chips for you?

Curious, Bernhard.

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