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S. venosum Varianten

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olvi2004

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Samstag, 27. Mai 2017, 21:28

S. venosum Varianten

Help,
the below problem bothers me because I'm not sure what's going on. Who knows?

Location:
I have venosums Sauromatum from different sources. Plants and flowers differ slightly from each other. The differences are not so big but recognizable, and I want to keep it so.

New differences emerge:
I let the plants bloom, crossings occur, i.e. If I new seeds germinate in the next year.

Lack of knowledge:
What happens to the mother tuber, if there is a cross? She will remain unaffected, and my S venosum variants live on? Or, a cross changed also the mother tuber (Cormels), and all copies of the appearance of equal time?

Subjective observation:
I mean, the number of variations has decreased in recent years. The cause can be of course the weather; every summer is the low temperature in combination with moisture, mud from a small number of tubers.

Greeting Olvi

Seiti

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Sonntag, 28. Mai 2017, 01:15

Hi, a crossing affects only the seeds. The mother plant is unaffected as at each plant. Only exception is the primary Cormels are also usually identical to the mother plant A. Konjac is da 'Shattered Glass' varies the variegation. Maybe you have photos of your Sauromatum would be interested how you differ.

Mr. Titanum

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Sonntag, 28. Mai 2017, 12:32

Hi Phillip,

da Seiti is quite right - the change or recombination of the genetic information in the somatic (body) cells of the plant hybridization or pollination would be new and a scientific sensation what...

First time genetically unchanged the vegetatively propagated plants, so the mother Corm and Cormels, or there are no recombinant from two different genomes.
Of course, that doesn't mean that the vegetatively propagated plants are really all genetically identical, as in normal (non-gametischen) cells occur naturally spontaneous mutations that may affect such of course phänotypischn.
This can include also various features.
'Shattered Glass' is certainly (and not by a cross)...

If you lose variants, that has nothing to do with the pollination of other phenotypes, but can have reasons, which you already mentioned.
In addition also reverse mutations in the wild type in question would be, but that are the main reason for your issues, I can not imagine...

Happy cloning, Bernhard.

olvi2004

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Sonntag, 28. Mai 2017, 18:59

Thanks for the reply.

It remains so the weather what I had deemed less likely as the cause. In the future, I will probably carry a part of the collection for a couple of days in the garage during cold spells.

I tried to take pictures, but the quality is not good enough to put in the Forum. The problem is not with my old Digi camera, but I don't get just it.
I have a few pictures in the Forum: thread "Purple and Brown points" post #12 and #13.

And here is a Bild(2013) of the absolutely most robust plant that I have. The colour is light blue, the leaves are thicker than others and she can withstand much more cold than my other S venosums. Is always the last one I just get in the autumn. Drawn from seed 2010 bought from England, World wonders garden, and has brown spots on the shaft.

If I have time I may try to make a short statement.
The problem is the amount of information. Nobody reads a long text. May be better than nothing.

Greeting OLvi
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AGM_de

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Sonntag, 4. Juni 2017, 18:54

I've noticed in my p. venosums also, of course, having that in addition to the Indian giant with lighter and darker patterns on the petiole, however I have not pursued it.

Greeting
Andreas

Mistkäfer

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Montag, 28. Mai 2018, 22:35

I have witnessed this last year on 2 leaves of a plant. The first sheet had a petiole with a bright green background and dark green stains. When the 2nd sheet of background was greenish white with a shimmer in the bluish, with the background of the stem in the vicinity of the leaf is green and usually also less patches. In addition, the stains were also strong in the paint.

The first sheet was pushed in very rainy and gloomy may, the 2nd later in sonnigerem weather. Moreover, were there the days longer.

««Originally posted by» olvi2004 «.»

And here is a Bild(2013) of the absolutely most robust plant that I have. The colour is light blue, the leaves are thicker than others and she can withstand much more cold than my other S venosums. Is always the last one I just get in the autumn. Drawn from seed 2010 bought from England, World wonders garden, and has brown spots on the shaft.
Slightly bluish leaves with brown spots ornate stem and in addition also still very robust, it is a very interesting combination. If you someday Cormels to the leave did, so I'd like one of them.
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olvi2004

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Dienstag, 29. Mai 2018, 16:36

Hello dung beetle

There are unfortunately all primary Cormels, which I have not planted in the compost heap for three weeks.
If the summer continues as so far (3 where daily > + 25 c °) there are certainly primary Cormels. We wait.

Greeting Olvi

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Dienstag, 29. Mai 2018, 19:30

Damn, I wanted to reply in the thread here longer and even extra have created a bookmark to having to search not long. What the heck, you've got this version in my collection just later.

To dispose of the tubers on the compost heap, could also backfire, but some plants grow very well there.

Even though the summer not continues, I see still no problem with Cormels. Last summer was really not particularly and I could not complain regarding Cormels.
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olvi2004

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Freitag, 10. August 2018, 15:42

Die S.v. Variante mit Doppelten Stiel und 26 Fiederblättern (2 x 13)

The stalk is 10... 15 cm longer than in tubers of equal size. In the amount of the plant immediately striking as is the "head" of.
IG shrinks the number of spots on the shaft with each new hand. The stalk does not double, what may well shows that two leaves have not grown together.

I don't know why, the shaft is double. Does anyone know? I unfortunately can't remember where I got the tuber.
The variant is simply not reasonable to photograph, I try every summer...
Here pictures from this year's trying: 16.7/31.7/9.8/31.7.

I've lost the normal form with double shaft a few years ago.

Greeting Olvi
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kleiner Uhu

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Freitag, 10. August 2018, 18:28

Hello Phillip
Duplications or enlargements of leaves, roots or flowers are common consequences of triploid Cromosomensätzen
Such changes are preserved only in generative propagation.
Greeting
Klaus

musa

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Samstag, 11. August 2018, 09:38

Hi Klaus,
what it depends really whether triploid plants are germinable or not?
Michael

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Freitag, 14. September 2018, 22:16

««Originally posted by» dung beetle»

To dispose of the tubers on the compost heap, could also backfire, but some plants grow very well there.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I got my clone of a wild compost heap.

««Originally posted by» olvi2004 «.»

IG shrinks the number of spots on the shaft with each new hand. The stalk does not double, what may well shows that two leaves have not grown together.
That looks to me despite all leaves grown together but after 2. That decreases the number of patches with each hand, I have not witnessed at my IG. However I have only this year and she had only two leaves.

What your pictures still strikes me: the plant shows a healthier stronger green and the 2nd sheet is completely normal.
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olvi2004

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Samstag, 15. September 2018, 20:39

The strong color even noticed me.
Unfortunately I have not noted whether that was also the case in the years before that.

Front in the bed, where the lighter, I have mixed several years sand in the Earth,
back where the big stands, is only Earth from drained pots.
That might be a cause.

The second sheet is normal. Is not always the case, it can also be vice versa.

Greeting Olvi

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Sonntag, 16. September 2018, 02:13

Other soil could indeed be the cause for the healthier color. Make the primary Cormels also such leaves?
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Freitag, 21. Juni 2019, 20:43

Speaking of brown spots, I have witnessed last year at my large normal ulcers at the hustle and bustle of the 2nd sheet, that the shaft was spotted brown. I then 2 or 3 days later finally came to take a picture, the stains were unfortunately already ver gruent:icon_nosmile:

This year that's how 2 plants at the 1st leaf and begin only at one of the spots of to green (third picture).

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Mittwoch, 31. Juli 2019, 20:03

In the meantime I have Yes 3 plants by Olvis Brown spotted clone; the largest plant, which has driven first and which Blatt is thus the oldest, the spots are now also ver gruent. This clone is the Brown apparently but significantly longer maintained and shows arguably reliable.
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Dienstag, 23. Juni 2020, 02:20

Also this year I have a normal normally green spotted venosum, in which the stem is only brown spotted when the leaf is drifting. This time, however, it doesn't seem to green so quickly. Last year, the leaf was long gone in this state of development.
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Freitag, 26. Juni 2020, 14:03

Unfortunately, the spots are now greened. However, I did not expect it any other way. After all, I also have a clone that shows the brown spots reliably and over a longer period of time, although not permanently. Also the brown coloration in the Lake Tana shape is not permanent. At the end of the growing season, this is rather a very dark olive green instead of brown.

Speaking of variant, found on Facebook: Sauromatum venosum 'Indian Giant'
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Freitag, 9. Juli 2021, 19:08

Quote from »olvi2004«

I lost the normal form with a double stem a few years ago.
But this year I have a plant with such a leaf with a double stem at the normal form. The remaining 6 in the same pot do not have double stems, but they are not round either. They are notched similar to the double stem, only one-sided and not double on opposite sides as in the double stem.

Similarities: All plants were planted very late with long leaf shoots and 6 of the plants were already planted last year. They then held out with the 2nd leaf until the end of October/beginning of November, until the leaves suddenly became mud. Whereby this with the muddy of the leaves at this late point in time is probably normal. I have never experienced this in the past. And no, the frost was not always the reason for the mud.

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olvi2004

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Sonntag, 11. Juli 2021, 17:21

Hello dung beetles,

my observation with plants with double petioles is that they make smaller tubers than plants with normal petioles. This is purely emotional, I have not been able to make any comparisons/measurements.
And for the difference in size, I have no explanation except that the total leaf area in the plants with double stem is smaller than in the normal ones.

If all the tubers in the bucket, when curding, were the same size, it would be easy to check that.
I would be interested in that. Can you tell us in autumn how it went!

Greeting Olvi
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